| <@brad> | hey folks, welcome to the iteration meeting | 07:01 |
| Today we'll start out our iteration meeting talking a bit about how we did last iteration. | 07:02 | |
| I'm not going to sugar coat this -- it didn't go so well. | ||
| We started out with 202 hours of work, during the middle, we went up to 238 at the peak, and we've closed the iteration with a little over 140 hours. | ||
| Basically, we were only able to work about 90 hours collectively when we should have been able to work about 280 hours. | ||
| Now, I'm not saying that people haven't been working a full 8 hour day, but I need to understand what everyone was working on that wasn't part of the iteration. | ||
| So if the developers could spend a few minutes and summarize in an email to me what they were working on that wasn't part of the iteration, that would be great. | 07:03 | |
| That being said, our estimates are about right on on average | ||
| <@decriptor> | brad: did the code migration have a big impact on time? | |
| <@brad> | decriptor: definitely, and I understand that | |
| but if there's anything that affected this sprint, I'd like to know about it | ||
| (and that 280 hours includes everyone's FTO) | 07:04 | |
| any questions about this last iteration before I move on? | ||
| okay | ||
| so this next iteration is the last one before our 0.9 release | 07:05 | |
| it's a short iteration, only 1 week | ||
| and we have a lot of work that remains | ||
| especially in the Bridge | ||
| so if we run dry of provider work, the provider folks will probably have to help out mike and andres | ||
| personally, I'll be taking only bridge work this iteration to assist with this | ||
| for this next release, the milestones that have been communicated are as follows: | 07:06 | |
| dev feature complete on november 19th | ||
| then we will hand off everything to stephen | ||
| who will tag, and get our RPMs ready in obs | ||
| the build should hopefully be complete by the 21st | ||
| and we'll release the next Monday on the 24th | 07:07 | |
| now you'll notice I've omitted the QA period I had talked about before | ||
| the reason is that we have very few bugs that the developers can work on during this week if they're not working on features | ||
| so instead, we're going to prioritize bugs that come in with a P1 or P2 priority | 07:08 | |
| so if you're a developer and working on an enhancement and a bug comes in with a P1 or P2 | ||
| please wrap up what you were working on, and work on the bug | ||
| this will hopefully assist QA in their test development | ||
| <@sandy> | brad: so we should knock out existing P1s and P2s before even starting enhancement bugs? | 07:09 |
| <@brad> | completing all the work is not going to be easy, so everyone needs to pitch in to make it happen | |
| sandy: yes, definitely | ||
| * sandy | notices there are a few | |
| <@brad> | any questions so far? | |
| < knocte> | we should estimate those bugs before assigning, right? | |
| <@brad> | sure, estimating is always important :) | 07:10 |
| for the bugs, it helps us become better estimators | ||
| < knocte> | and the ones that come during the iteration? | |
| <@brad> | yes, everything you work on should be estimated if possible | |
| < knocte> | ok | |
| <@brad> | anything else? | |
| < knocte> | the problem is that not everybody is watching the generic email for bugs | 07:11 |
| <@brad> | knocte: good point | |
| < knocte> | and hence don't notice new bugs | |
| <@brad> | if QA could send an email to mono-a11y when they find a new high priority bug, that would be great | |
| <@bgm> | hrm. | |
| <@sandy> | I'll make some tinyurls of good queries and put them in /topic ? | |
| < knocte> | on the page I've worked on in berserk, I'll also add some numbers about unassigned/unestimated bugs | |
| <@brad> | knocte: cool | 07:12 |
| bgm: ideas? | ||
| we can talk about this after the meeting | ||
| the last thing I wanted to mention is that I've added a new feature to berserk | ||
| some of you might have seen it already | ||
| basically, this last iteration, we still had issues with people marking their hours daily | 07:13 | |
| so I've added a daemon to berserk that will send you a polite reminder every night | ||
| if the hours on the bugs you have assigned haven't changed that day | ||
| <@bgm> | brad: i thought developers should be monitoring mono-a11y-qa for new bugs that aren't your guys' enhancements | |
| <@brad> | bgm: we haven't been... let's chat about this a little later then | |
| <@bgm> | because i see no reason that QA should need to log a bug and then e-mail the bug | 07:14 |
| seems uberedundant. | ||
| <@brad> | bgm: fair enough. maybe I can watch new bugs as they come in, and make sure someone is on it | |
| great, that's all I had to talk about | 07:15 | |
| <@mgorse> | bgm: The QA bugs have been going to mono-a11y-bugs, so I'm not sure why we also need to watch mono-a11y-qa. Am I missing something? | |
| <@brad> | So if the developers could each spend some time and assign themselves issues out of the 0.9 release, that would be awesome | |
| <@bgm> | mgorse: the QA contact for the bugs we log is mono-a11y-qa, so that list should only get new bugs that QA logs | 07:16 |
| <@sandy> | now? | |
| <@brad> | make sure to add them to Berserk, and also make sure to have near 100% load if possible | |
| sandy: please | ||
| bgm: mono-a11y-qa is the qa contact for all bugs though | ||
| bgm: so wouldn't it get bug mail for *every* bug we log, and everything we change? | ||
| <@mgorse> | brad: Do you have any suggestions as to how many hours to file? I went through and figured out what bugs I was thinking of assigning to myself, but it gave me 63 hours. But I was assuming that it would just be Andres and I who would be working on the bridge, so maybe I should remove some of them | 07:17 |
| <@bgm> | mono-a11y-bugs the QA contact when you guys create an enhancement? (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cg i?id=428475) | |
| just a random bug i grabbed. | ||
| <@brad> | bgm: well, there are only 5 days in the next iteration, so you shouldn't assign more than 30ish | |
| <@bgm> | mgorse: ^ | 07:18 |
| <@brad> | bgm: mono-a11y-qa is the qa contact for all the bugs, I thought | |
| oh, it's not | 07:19 | |
| weird | ||
| <@bgm> | that is how i thought we were differentiating between enhancements (spam to QA) and "real" bugs | |
| <@brad> | ah, I guess that makes sense... but I don't think it was intentional... :) | |
| <@bgm> | :P | 07:20 |
| i guess i just assumed when that's how things ended up | 07:21 | |
| <@sandy> | ngao: do you want to grab the remaining 0.9 provider bugs? RadioButton and ScrollBar? | |
| -!- jpallen [~jpallen@ariadne.provo.novell.com] has joined #mono-a11y | ||
| <@brad> | hey jared | 07:22 |
| <@sandy> | brad, mario, ngao: I am using this query to find open 0.9 provider bugs: http://tinyurl.com/56ehx9 | |
| <@ngao> | sandy: aren't they already done? | |
| <@brad> | sandy: perfect | |
| <@mario> | ngao: missing client tests, I guess. | |
| <@brad> | guys, gonna restart berserk real quick | |
| <@sandy> | ngao: for some reason there are open bugs, so somebody needs to look at them :-) | |
| I grabbed webbrowser | ||
| <@brad> | ok, it's back | 07:23 |
| <@ngao> | mario: sandy: ok, i'll take them | |
| <@brad> | knocte: what bridge tasks can I take? | 07:24 |
| * knocte | looks | |
| <@brad> | http://tinyurl.com/4cpvsl | 07:25 |
| that's open bridge bugs in the 0.9 release | ||
| <@sandy> | wow | 07:26 |
| < knocte> | NumericUpDown | |
| VScrollbar (mm, but that may depend on Scrollbar) | 07:27 | |
| <@sandy> | brad: so I'm at ~20 hours, should I add bridge work now? | |
| <@mgorse> | knocte: brad: I just took 428574, but I could take something else instead if that makes things easier | |
| <@mario> | can I take Scrollbar (bridge)? | |
| <@sandy> | or look at P1/P2 bugs first? | |
| <@brad> | sandy: yeah | |
| sandy: we'll have to integrate bugs into our sprint | ||
| sandy: so load up | ||
| < knocte> | and RichTextBox will definitely depend on unfinished TextBox | 07:28 |
| <@mario> | knocte: are you going to work in combobox? I can take it. | |
| < knocte> | combobox is almost finished | |
| let me take it | ||
| <@brad> | mgorse: go ahead and take that one | |
| <@mgorse> | ScrollBar and its descendants should basically be done; I don't remember if there was a reason I hadn't marked them fixed | 07:29 |
| <@mario> | ok, I will wait for the missing bugs, let me know when everyone is finished. | |
| <@mgorse> | Oh, right--there's the AtkAction stuff | |
| <@brad> | calen, ray: feel free to leave if you'd like, unless you have any questions for folks | |
| ngao: and feel free to leave once you've assigend your work | ||
| <@ray> | brad, ok for me | |
| <@calen> | brad: np | |
| <@ngao> | brad: ok | 07:30 |
| <@brad> | gnite folks! | |
| <@ray> | brad, will we need to report the plans of next two weeks | |
| <@calen> | bgm, ping | |
| <@brad> | ray: no, I think your scrum reports cover that pretty well | |
| <@sandy> | knocte: do you still want https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi ?id=436145 ? | |
| or should I grab it? | ||
| <@bgm> | calen: pong | |
| <@brad> | knocte: what about ToolStrip*? | 07:31 |
| <@calen> | bgm: can you running form_basic_ops.py pass? | |
| < knocte> | brad: leave for me anything about ToolStripMenuItem or ComboBox related | |
| <@mario> | mgorse: I can work in Scrollbar if you are not going to. | |
| <@bgm> | calen: let me look! | 07:32 |
| <@brad> | knocte: ok, maybe you could come up with a list of things that you and mike haven't claimed for us | |
| < knocte> | brad: besides, I think 436145 should be fixed now because of a recent refactoring | |
| <@calen> | bgm, it fails to assert the extra wondows has been closed by using altF4() | |
| bgm: it looks like a bug, but I am not sure very much. | 07:33 | |
| < knocte> | yeah, take in account that in last iteration we had to assign all *Begin bugs so they seem to be no unclaimed bugs, or unclaimed bugs that depend on unfinished Begin* bugs | |
| <@mgorse> | mario: I haven't assigned anything from it to myself. I'm not sure what, if anything, still needs doing | 07:34 |
| <@brad> | knocte: since you have more intimite knowledge, would you mind preparing that list? | |
| < knocte> | brad: take 428530 | |
| <@brad> | knocte: ok, thanks | |
| < knocte> | ok, I'll do that list | |
| <@ngao> | knocte: are there bridge bugs I could take? | 07:36 |
| <@brad> | once knocte has that list, we should be able to work off of it | |
| <@calen> | bgm: the test would jump off with assert error when running "message.altF4()" and "extraform.altF4()" | |
| <@mgorse> | I just un-assigned 428584 and 428617. Had too many hours. | 07:37 |
| <@ray> | brad, alright, then I am leaving now. because Starbucks will be closed with 30 minutes. so if you have any questions on me, drop me emails? | |
| <@brad> | ray: will do, thanks! | |
| <@sandy> | brad: should these be milestoned to 0.9? http://tinyurl.com/5tvn3o | 07:38 |
| < knocte> | hey brad, I may have found a bug in berserk, I just clicked in "plan your sprint", and I have 1 bug assigned that I didn't add, and indeed that bug is assigned to you | |
| <@calen> | ray, see you tomorrow! | |
| <@ray> | ok, bye | |
| <@ngao> | ray: see you | |
| <@brad> | knocte: hmm, weird | |
| sandy: yes, definitely | ||
| <@sandy> | brad: ok I'll update them | |
| <@brad> | knocte: what number? | |
| < knocte> | 428609 | 07:39 |
| -!- ray [~ray@221.220.15.25] has quit [good day, sirs :)] | ||
| <@brad> | knocte: hmm, that was assigned to you last iteration, wasn't it | |
| < knocte> | oh right, but others as well | |
| and those others don't appear | ||
| <@brad> | knocte: so I know exactly why that's happening | |
| knocte: there are snapshots that exist with you as the assigned_to, so it's pulling that in. that's definitely a bug, and a weird one at that | 07:40 | |
| < knocte> | I see | |
| so I should remove it from my list? or you want to keep it in order to reproduce the bug more easily? | ||
| <@brad> | knocte: no, just leave it | |
| <@sandy> | brad, knocte, mario, ngao: so here is a query for all unassigned 0.9 bugs in any category: http://tinyurl.com/5jcl9h | 07:41 |
| <@brad> | you shouldn't even be able to delete it to be honest | |
| < knocte> | ok | |
| <@brad> | sandy: awesome | |
| <@bgm> | calen: sorry, i am having trouble updating RPMs, one moment please | 07:42 |
| <@sandy> | okay, all provider work is assigned | |
| <@calen> | bgm: ok | |
| <@brad> | knocte: hows the list going? | 07:43 |
| < knocte> | for now I have 428505,428530,428397,428584,428617,42854 3 | |
| <@mario> | sandy: thanks! | |
| * sandy | is lost | |
| < knocte> | sandy: hey, MenuItem (not to confuse with ToolStripMenuItem) was finally moved to 1.0, right? | |
| <@brad> | I'll take 428397 | 07:44 |
| <@sandy> | knocte: yes | |
| < knocte> | ok, moving | |
| <@brad> | mario: damn, you took that one... | |
| <@mario> | brad: what what!? | |
| <@brad> | mario: you took 428397 :) | |
| ok, I'll take 428617 | ||
| <@ngao> | i'd like to take statusstrip (bridge) 428585 | |
| <@mgorse> | Some of these bridge bugs will just involve checking that the functionality is there and/or writing tests | 07:45 |
| <@sandy> | aweseom | 07:46 |
| < knocte> | yep | |
| <@ngao> | ok | |
| <@brad> | can I take 444066? | |
| and 436409? | ||
| * sandy | will take NumericUpDown bugs if nobody else is | |
| < knocte> | 444066 is listbox, mgorse: do you mind? | 07:47 |
| <@brad> | that one is easy | |
| <@mgorse> | knocte: brad: Either way is fine with me | 07:48 |
| < knocte> | and 436409 will depend on all combobox work being finished | |
| the testscase is huge | ||
| <@sandy> | brad: should I stop because I'm at 31 hours? | |
| <@brad> | sandy: yeah... if you finish early, you can always pick up more | |
| <@sandy> | or should we assign until everything's gone? | |
| ok | ||
| <@mgorse> | actually I don't really know, just by looking at the description, if 444066 is a bridge bug or a provider bug | |
| <@brad> | ok, I still have hours... what else can I take? | 07:49 |
| mgorse: I'll look at both then... thanks | ||
| <@mario> | I'm taking 442328! | |
| <@brad> | I'll take 428504 | |
| <@bgm> | calen: i see what you're saying. | |
| <@brad> | ngao: how are you doing on work? | 07:50 |
| <@bgm> | calen: interesting, this didn't happen before right? | |
| <@ngao> | brad: i'm taking bridge bugs | |
| <@brad> | anyone working on scrollbar? | |
| <@calen> | bgm: i am not sure when this happened | |
| <@ngao> | where does bridge test code place? sorry, i'm not familiar with bridge side | 07:51 |
| <@brad> | ngao: cool, just wanted to make sure you were getting enough bridge bugs | |
| <@mario> | brad: are we going to replace all the reflection with InternalsVisibleTo in this iteration? | |
| <@calen> | bgm: what do you think? is it a bug? | |
| <@mgorse> | brad: I just looked briefly, and 444066 is probably a bridge bug, the bridge never checking the property | |
| <@bgm> | calen: i will look at it today. yes, i think it is a bug | |
| <@brad> | mario: hmm, I think we should focus on the features first | |
| mgorse: ah cool | ||
| <@mario> | brad: ok. right! | |
| <@brad> | ok, I'm taking 428567 and 428628 (scrollbar, vscrollbar) | 07:52 |
| and 428629 | ||
| <@mario> | all the AtkText bugs are somehow related, right? | |
| < knocte> | yep | |
| why, what are you looking at | ||
| <@calen> | bgm: okay, we need log it | 07:53 |
| <@mario> | knocte: just the bugs, nothing else. | |
| <@ngao> | i'll take 428503 | |
| <@bgm> | calen: okay, i will see if i can figure out why it is happening and log a bug so you can sleep :) | |
| <@mario> | the ErrorProvider bug: 428505 is wrong, because the errorprovider adds controls for each control showing errormessages | 07:54 |
| <@calen> | bgm: seems they have fixed the close problem for main windows but still leave the issue for extra windows :) | |
| bgm: great! | ||
| < knocte> | mario, you mean that the spec is wrong? | 07:55 |
| <@mario> | ErrorProvider, its an image, actually, nothing else | |
| knocte: is, it is an image | ||
| < knocte> | mario: you can take that one, and fix the spec accordingly | |
| <@mario> | knocte: ok | |
| <@brad> | anyone taking 436834? | 07:56 |
| <@calen> | bgm: if you change the code(Line 70) to "message.findPushButton("OK").click() | |
| print "aaaaaaaaaa", message", you would see we still can find message frame after close it | ||
| <@sandy> | brad: anything else to cover in the meeting? | 07:57 |
| <@mario> | mgorse: this is already fixed, isn't it: 428471 ? | |
| <@sandy> | I may need to bail soon | |
| <@brad> | sandy: nope, that's it | |
| <@sandy> | left wife's car at dentist, boring story | |
| <@brad> | no worries | 07:58 |
| < knocte> | brad: go ahead | |
| <@brad> | cool, all that is left is *TextBox, and ToolStripComboBox | |
| < knocte> | ToolStripComboBox? I thought I got that one | |
| <@mgorse> | mario: I'm not sure | 07:59 |
| < knocte> | and TextBox you mean RichTextBox and ToolStripTextBox, right? | |
| <@brad> | no, I still see ToolStripComboBox on this report.... let me refresh | |
| < knocte> | oh yes | |
| I guess that ones will be finished just because of combobox being finished | 08:00 | |
| <@mario> | mgorse: but why a table cell? is because of the checkbox and the item, so we have a table of n rows and 2 columns ? is that the reason | |
| < knocte> | so they will be just unit tests | |
| <@brad> | ngao: how many hours did you end up with? | 08:01 |
| * calen | time to sleep. request bgm to log bug for Form's closed issue | 08:02 |
| <@calen> | bye! | |
| <@brad> | gnite! | |
| <@ngao> | brad: 19 hrs, i could take rich text box | 08:03 |
| < knocte> | brad: question, so if we have to select 30 h, and I got 31, why berserk says I'm on 74% load? | |
| <@brad> | ngao: 19 hours is good... let us know when you're low on hours | |
| knocte: heh, uh... I forgot to take into account weekends | ||
| < knocte> | :) | |
| -!- calen [~calen@61.149.60.129] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | ||
| <@brad> | the one thing I forgot to mention... did everyone transfer in their bugs they didn't complete from last iteration? | 08:04 |
| <@sandy> | yes | |
| * brad | high-fives sandy | |
| * sandy | falls over | |
| <@mgorse> | mario: I'm not sure. I hadn't noticed that. | |
| <@ngao> | brad: oops, not yet | |
| <@brad> | sandy: what happened to iron man? | |
| ngao: heh, maybe that'll make up for the 10 hours? :) | ||
| <@sandy> | :-P | 08:05 |
| <@ngao> | brad: just wait for reviews | |
| <@bgm> | hrm.. why do we show all of this "Embeds" stuff under "Relations" in Accerciser than Gtk doesn't show? | |
| <@brad> | mario: don't forget to add your bugs to berserk | 08:07 |
| <@mario> | brad: yes. don't worry. | |
| can you delete bugs from bersek? | 08:08 | |
| <@sandy> | trash icon | |
| < knocte> | bgm: haven't you found any case in Gtk in which it happens? | 08:09 |
| <@mario> | sandy: tried that, maybe is a bug. | |
| because i'm not the assignee in the bug! | 08:10 | |
| <@bgm> | knocte: i haven't. i have seen relations when i explicitely create them in Gtk (like to associate a label to a button), but i don't think i have ever seen "embeds" | |
| < knocte> | bgm: ok, then that's a bug | |
| file it please | ||
| <@bgm> | will do | |
| < knocte> | good catch ;) | |
| <@bgm> | :) | 08:11 |
| <@brad> | is everyone done with their assignments? | |
| then this meeting is adjourned! | 08:12 | |
| <@sandy> | yes | |
| < knocte> | let's ask the inverse? anyone still assigning? | |
| hehe | ||
| <@sandy> | mario: so I committed the navigation stuff | |
| <@mario> | sandy: nice! | |
| <@sandy> | the only "big" change you'll notice... | |
| < knocte> | sandy: hey cool, I was depending on that :) | |
| <@sandy> | is that I got rid of ChildNavigation | |
| everybody uses ParentNavigation now | ||
| <@brad> | good. I hate kids. | 08:13 |
| <@mario> | haha | |
| -!- knocte changed the topic of #mono-a11y to: Accessibility: http://www.mono-project.com/Accessibilit y | ||
| <@sandy> | and all the navigation infastructure moved from fragmentrootcontrolprovider to fragmentcontrolprovider | |
| the rest of the changes are just details from that...but it's all one commit you can look at if you're curious | ||
| < knocte> | sandy: mind taking care of the log? | |
| <@sandy> | knocte: will do, in a bit...need to run away actually | |
| mario: let me know if you come across anything weird since the change | 08:14 | |
| < knocte> | no worries | |
| thanks | ||
| <@sandy> | I ran all of the unit tests on provider and bridge sides | |
| and got same results before and after my change | ||
| <@mario> | sandy: so, do you know when to use Fragment and when FragmentRoot? | |
| honestly, I don't see why they use it indistinctly | 08:15 | |
| <@sandy> | mario: I'm still not 100% about when to pick one over another | |
| <@brad> | should we ask Microsoft? | |
| <@mario> | so, now Fragments support children, when should we use FragmentRoot... I don't get it. | 08:16 |
| MSDN says something about it, but, don't know. I agree with brad we should ask Microsoft. | ||
| <@sandy> | yeah, probably | 08:17 |
| <@mario> | maybe in Silverlight that thing makes more sense. | |
| <@sandy> | okay, back in a bit | |
| -!- You're now known as sandy|away | ||
| <@brad> | mario, sandy: do you guys want to draft an email and send it to me, and I'll make sure it gets to Microsoft? | |
| <@sandy|away> | brad: sure | |
| <@mario> | sure | |
| <@brad> | thanks |